An Open Letter to Senator Clinton: Please Help Undermine the Anti-Obama Web Sites (using your name)

Dear Senator Clinton,

After a difficult and long campaign, I want to thank you for supporting Senator Obama and for your efforts on behalf of the Democratic Party, past and future. We all know that a divided party will simply set the stage for a John McCain victory. We can all agree with Reverend King.

"Now, what does all of this mean in this great period of history? It means that we've got to stay together. We've got to stay together and maintain unity. You know, whenever Pharaoh wanted to prolong the period of slavery in Egypt, he had a favorite, favorite formula for doing it. What was that? He kept the slaves fighting among themselves. But whenever the slaves get together, something happens in Pharaoh's court, and he cannot hold the slaves in slavery. When the slaves get together, that's the beginning of getting out of slavery. Now let us maintain unity." Martin Luther King, "I've Been to the Mountaintop," April 3rd, 1968.

Perhaps you have heard that your supporters, or those claiming to be your supporters, have formed groups and begun web sites in order to undermine Obama's chances in November. These sites are using your name.

Let me give you one example, "Ex-Hillary Supporters for John McCain" <http://www.hcsfjm.com/comments5.html>. Here is an excerpt from one of the first postings on the site. [Grammatical and spelling errors not corrected.]

"The belief that Hillary Clinton and Obama are alike or even close is just ludicrous.
1/ Mrs. Clinton is someone who has served this country with honor for some 35 years

2/ Mrs. Clinton has integrity OBAMA has none

3/ Jonh McCain respects Mrs. Clinton unlike Obama.

4/ Mrs. Clinton is not a racist or calls racist friends, unlike Mr. Obama whose friends are terrorist and anti semites

I could go on and on.......but the best thing about Mrs. Clinton that she will be there to clean out the barn after OBAMA gets soundly rejected by the American people"

Here is currently (June 9th, 11:30 PM) the third posting on the site:

"A lot of Americans have become so
insulated from reality that they imagine that
America can suffer defeat without any inconvenience to themselves.

Pause a moment, reflect back.
These events are actual events from history.
They really happened!!!
Do you remember?

1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and
killed by a Muslim male extremist between the age of 17 and 40.

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics,
athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was
taken over by Muslim male extremists between the
ages of 17 and 40."

After enumerating more points about Muslims, here is how the post ends:

"Have the American People completely
lost their Minds, or just their Power of Reason???
I'm sorry but I refuse to take a
chance on the 'unknown' candidate Obama . . . ."

Here is a third example from the same web page:

"I am disappointed that Hillary will not be the Democratic candidate, but there is no way I would ever vote for BHO, even if Hillary is VP. I would not vote for him simply for the reason that the man that represents the U.S., and should love our country more than any other, will not wear the most recognizable symbol of our country - the American flag on his chest. Oh, now he wears it..anything for a vote!
This man is dangerous to our democracy!
Please spread the word and encourage your friends to cast their vote against BHO!"

How many individuals on these sites are actually your supporters? I don't know. I do know that many are speaking as if they are your supporters. I also know that John McCain is asking your supporters for their votes.

These outrageous and scurrilous attacks must be undermined. There is no one in a better position to do so than you. I ask that you denounce these attacks on Senator Obama and distance yourself immediately from web sites and organizations that engage in them. You promised that you would do everything in your power to help elect a Democrat to the White House in November. Here is one way that you can make a significant difference. Please don't pass up the opportunity. Act now.

Mitchell A  
http://msa4.wordpress.com/



Display:


Re: An Open Letter to Senator Clinton (none / 0)

Great diary and concept.  The one that truly stuns me is the suggestion that McCain respects Hillary while Obama does not.

McCain called Chelsea ugly in a joke that also implied that Hillary is a lesbian, and then laughed when someone asked him "how do we beat the bitch" referring to Hillary.  

Respectful?  Give me a break.


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:59:24 AM EST

Take down this diary (none / 0)

Who cares?


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:06:39 AM EST

Re: Take down this diary (2.00 / 1)

You are probably helping bolster the group's efforts by discussing its efforts.  Just chill out, enjoy the warm weather, and Obama's poll numbers.  Your guy has had a good two weeks.  Chill out.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:08:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Open Letter to Senator Clinton (none / 0)

nice premise; but I doubt it will happen. I mean its just about as likely as Sen. Obama undermining the Anit-Clinton sites out-there.

good luck though.


by alyssa chaos on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:17:10 AM EST

Don't be too concerned (2.00 / 1)

Senator Clinton will do Yeoman's work getting our next president elected. She is an extraordinary woman. This BS McCain smoke will never work on smart people, and smart people supported Senator Clinton. You diminish her and her supporters by "worrying" over these things.

Be happy, we have an amazing candidate and Senator Clinton will be an amazing surrogate. Democrats are a family and we love and support each other, we don't worry each other to death.


by figgy on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:25:33 AM EST

No Way... (1.25 / 4)

this is where we are guys...

and we are energized...

THIS IS GOING TO THE CONVENTION....

If MI/FL were seated in full

Hillary would have 1726 pledged delegates to

BO's 1705 pledged delegates...

she won the popular vote and we are a

MOVEMENT...

this is getting bigger by the day....

we are going to hit the convention floor.

I am pumped up.....

NOBAMA.


by nikkid on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:58:15 AM EST

Re: No Way... (none / 0)

"we are going to hit the convention floor"

I assume you are talking about the Republican convention? Otherwise, you are not welcomed.


by Newcomer2 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:18:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I like your passion, but (2.00 / 1)

at this point, I don't think its going anywhere. I love the Clintons too, but sadly, the Daily Kos hijacked much of the primary


by Lakrosse on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like your passion, but (none / 0)

I mojo'd you for reality. However blaming dkos for people like me and my family (8 people) is way out...seriously way out. I didn't even start reading at places like that till after I voted and I live in VA. the post super tuesday tuesday primary, the mathematical beginning of the end. I know how you feel, I love Hillary too. Don't oversimplify, it won't gain you anything.


by figgy on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 06:02:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Please (none / 0)

My mother, father, sister, brother, sister-in-law, a couple of aunts..... those are the Obama supporters I can think of off the top of my head who, I assure you, have never heard of "Daily Kos"

My mom and her sisters have no idea what a "blog" is.


by BlueinColorado on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 09:10:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Way... (2.00 / 1)

"If MI/FL were seated in full Hillary would have 1726 pledged delegates to BO's 1705 pledged delegates..."

With your supposedly brilliant idea of supposedly seating 0 delegates from Michigan for Obama, right? Cute.

Even so your numbers seem wrong. Did you seat anything from Florida for Obama, or did you remove his Florida delegates also?

How interested in enfranchisement the Hillary deadenders are! Supposedly 0 people wanted Obama in Michigan. How nice.

Also not counting any of Edwards' pledged delegates that switched to Obama, I see.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 04:42:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Way... (2.00 / 1)

So if we were to seat FL/MI in full Obama would LOSE 31 delegates off of his count? With both at half strength he has 1766 delegates.  Shouldn't your comment read, "With MI/FL at full strength for Hillary and FL at half strength and no delegates from MI for Obama, Hillary would be ahead!!!"?

The only movement you have here is one of math illiterates.  But go on ahead to your hillaryis44 and no quarter websites, I bet with the 5 people you have posting regularly there it must feel like a movement.  The REAL Hillary supporters, who realize that a McCain presidency means the end of Roe v. Wade, war with Iran and economic hardships unlike anything we've seen so far, will be over here with the democrats.  


by matchles on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:33:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

STOP IT - the argument of Roe vs Wade no (1.50 / 2)

longer holds water for us who've been around for 40 yrs and fought for it and have seen democrats after democrats confirming prolifers.

It's congress who decides who gets confirmed: i.e. Scalia confirmed 98-0 including Kennedy & Gore - how do you think that made us feel?  11 democrats voted for Thomas, the sexual harrasser, that made us feel real good about our so-called democratic allies (sic) and how did you like the questionning of Anita Hill by Kennedy, a real woman's champion, he was that day by accusing her of fabrications and soiling a good black man's reputation? Have you so soon forgotten the recent atrocity committed against women reproductive rights by the 22 democrats who voted for Roberts and the 4 democrats who also voted for rabid prolifer Alito!

This argument is old and beyond stale. Please change your tune, it doesn't fly unless we are assured that democrats will vote, en bloc, against all prolifers, which they will never do! So stop lecturing us, please! Anyway, the torch has been passed to you, so go fight your own battles!


by suzieg on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:58:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: STOP IT - the argument of Roe vs Wade no (none / 0)

You can't get all the democrats in congress to reject a nominee simply because they are anti-abortion.  On what grounds do you argue that the nominee is not suited for the job?

Which is why it is much more important to get a president in place who won't put a nominate a judge who is anti-abortion.  Roe v Wade is just hanging on by a thread and it is clear McCain's intention is to overturn it.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/11/19 mccain-now-supports-the-immediate-overt urn-of-roe-v-wade

McCain now supports the immediate overturn of Roe v. Wade

I'm sorry but your logic is confusing.  I'm having a hard time understanding that since ALL dems in congress won't oppose ALL anti-abortion candidates. It is reasonable to put ANOTHER president in place that would nominate MORE anti-abortion judges.

I also notice you didn't touch the part of my post about McCain starting war with Iran or ruining the economy more.  I could also have gone on about how McCain doesn't have a health care plan but I figured those first three were reason enough to join Obama.


by matchles on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:44:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nikkid... (none / 0)

Your math is poor.

I really loved Hillary, I've been saying that everywhere tonight. My mind was changed during the process...these things happen. You are wishing for a political suicide pact. it's inexplicable to me. I would have been thrilled with Hillary Clinton as our candidate, she is not. I am thrilled with Barack Obama. If something dreadful happens between now and the end of August you'll get your wish...only that, not math will give you what you want. If you really want to spend the next 2 1/2 months hoping for a disaster of epic proportions to happen then that is your absolute right. It just seems to be a sad way to spend that much of your life.

I'm really sorry if any of this sounded rude, you just made me so sad for you. I couldn't not say anything.


by figgy on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:58:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am pumped up.....????? (none / 0)

please pass what ever you are smoking
keep the rotation going   come on

puff puff pass


"How long have I been at this, like five weeks?" -Simple Sarah 08'
by wellinformed on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 07:50:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Way... (none / 0)

You're just going to make your candidate, to say nothing of yourselves, look silly.


by BlueinColorado on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 09:11:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Open Letter to Senator Clinton: (2.00 / 2)

These are not Hillary Clinton sites.  They never were.  Hillaryis44.org and all the others are and have always been republican sites.


by rf7777 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:00:09 AM EST

Why are you so frightened that you have to (1.00 / 3)

beg Clinton to come to his rescue when in fact he, his surrogates and aides have told us that he doesn't need us! We take him/them at their word! He's the messiah, haven't you realized that? He's the golden boy who has taken over the reigns of the party and knows what's good for it! Like throwing the seniors, women and hispanics under the bus - so where are we to go but to the only remaining party left - the republican party which is welcoming us with open arms! Now that's much more appealing than being called names for backing Clinton!


by suzieg on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:36:30 AM EST

Re: Why are you so frightened that you have to (2.00 / 0)

I hear this alot.  When were "you" told he wouldn't need you?


by tired of dynasties on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 04:23:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

from his 2 aides after he annointed himself (1.00 / 2)

Last Tuesday.

Quotes: Two Obama aides saying (today) that Obama doesn't need Clinton supporters.

"It has been a hard-fought and sometimes bitter campaign, but Obama is not, one of his senior advisers assured me Tuesday night, going to spend a lot of time in the next few months wooing Clinton supporters whose feelings may be hurting.

"I think there are always immediate feelings of disappointment and anger," Anita Dunn said. "But in the months ahead, he must appeal not just to the constituency groups who favored her in the primaries, but those he wants in the general election, and that includes independents and Republicans."

Another Obama adviser, who asked not to be identified, said that he was not worried that Clinton supporters would stay angry".


by suzieg on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 04:55:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: from his 2 aides after he annointed himself (2.00 / 1)

So, basically: nobody ever said he doesn't need you. You're merely offended that he's letting you make your own decision about the best course for America (McCain presidency or Obama presidency) instead of aggressively "wooing" you when you're still grieving.

Treating you like adults isn't a declaration he doesn't need you. It's merely the belief that you're still Democrats and you'll make the wise choice.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:36:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This whole thread (none / 0)

gave me a stomach ache.

Dear lord why are people so mean. Seriously, WHY? What is the point of any of this. What is so wrong that can't be made right? There are better things, more worthy things, where are they? Why is this here while those better things are not?

I'm a nice person, you officially made me sick. Thanks.

P.S. I kinda of think I might be on your (the diarists) side, but I can't tell because this is all so mean.


by figgy on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:35:34 AM EST

Go ask any French Canadian how politics (none / 0)

caused rifts in their families and friendships that have yet to be mended because of the separatists' referendum!

It's a known fact that you should never talk about politics and religion if you want to keep friends or are not willing to get into some kind of heated argument! Nobody ever wins - it's too deep rooted but it can be a lot of fun, if you do not take it personally.....

I find, for me, there is nothing more scintillating and entertaining than a good argumentative discussion on politics because I can easily walk away from it and never give a second thought about what perspired out of it!

Grow a thick skin if you want to talk politics, it's can get mean if you're not used to it!


by suzieg on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 08:37:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Go ask any French Canadian how politics (none / 0)

/Nobody ever wins - it's too deep rooted but it can be a lot of fun, /

So.... you want to give John McCain the power to bomb Iran, trash the environment, and appoint whackjobs to the Supreme Court because you find it amusing?

What did you say upthread about your forty years of progressive ideals?


by BlueinColorado on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 09:23:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You've just proven my point! Thank you! Why do (none / 0)

you come here if not because you ENJOY participating in the political discourse which I choose to share? Or am I expected to enter and join an echo chamber? Why is it taboo to discuss or point to your candidate's or the party's weaknesses? You have to lighten up, otherwise you are in for a lot of mental pain for the next 5 months, especially if you choose to parse every written word that does not meet with your approval or cause you irritation! Can we please have a discussion without twisting the words of your dissenter simply because you do not approve of her choice of words at that moment or because they irk you? try ignoring them like water on the backs of ducks instead of lashing out, it's better for your blood pressure!

I'll repeat again, the wackjobs presently on the Supreme Court are there because democrats helped to confirm them.  Scalia's votes to confirm, unanimous, 98-0, including KENNEDY AND GORE while they were the majority in congress - please explain that one to me before accusing me of finding it amusing! In case you didn't know, Thomas = 11 democratic votes, Roberts = 22 democratic votes, Alito = 4 democratic votes!

About giving McCain power to bomb Iran, look no further than the Pelosi democratic held congress which already has done so. please read the following:

www.counterpunch.com/leupp05122008.html

Here's a sample:

The Congress has passed near-unanimous resolutions against Iran, endorsing the administration's unprecedented designation of a component of a nation's military as a "terrorist organization." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will be on board the program. Recall how after the Democratic victory two years ago she capitulated to AIPAC by stripping from a military spending bill the requirement that Bush seek Congressional approval before attacking Iran. (That was after she'd pointedly declared that Bush-Cheney impeachment hearings were "off the table." And after Rep. John Conyers, head of the House Judiciary Committee and sometimes maverick, bitterly disappointed those pinning their hopes on him by going along with the Democratic leadership's line. And after the Democrats had made it clear they weren't serious about ending the war they'd been elected to end---showing us how very well the democratic system works in this country.)

John McCain, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton (all of whom agree that an attack on Iran is "on the table") will publicly approve. The media will call upon the same "military analysts"/military industry consultants who have been disseminating Pentagon propaganda for pay since 2002 to explain why the attack is justified and necessary. The main talking-point has been decided: "Iran is killing American soldiers in Iraq." Public opinion polls will show the public divided, but a majority in support of the action because, regardless of their feelings about the war in Iraq, they want to "support our troops" and after all, Iran was asking for it by interfering in Iraq and attacking us.

here's another for your perusal:

www.counterpunch.com/mcquade05222008.htm l

Read and weep:

Economic neoliberalism is only one facet of the bipartisan consensus Obama dutifully upholds. He embraces underlining assumptions of the "War on Terror," and the entrenched structures of militarism that underlie it.

He opposed Senator Russ Feingols move to censure the Bush Administration for illegal wiretaps; he distanced himself from fellow Illinois Senator Dick Durbin when Durbin attacked the torture and indefinite detention taking place Guantanamo Bay; he even lent his support to the Joe Liberman, when Ned Lamont, an anti-war candidate, challenged the saber-rattling Senator in the primaries leading up to 2006 elections.

Obama is itching to have his turn as an Imperial President: he's already claimed the executive privilege to order a first-strike nuclear attack on Iran and covert operations in Pakistan.

Altogether, Obama is more likely to please those at the Council on Foreign Relations than the World Social Forum.

What I've learned from 40 years of experience and disappointments being a democrat is that I have to read everything because not a single one of them can be trusted regardless of party affiliations.


by suzieg on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 11:12:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As I said upthread... (none / 0)

...it depends on which things you are really valuing first and foremost.

For me, Penn's client list (and the fact he would be some species of senior adviser), the AUMF, Kyl-Lieberman, welfare reform 90's style were reasons that I couldn't vote for Senator Clinton.  A large reason why it split into 2 camps (as opposed to 2 camps + Edwards) was that people were taking the other candidate's shortcomings in mind.  

Neoliberalism in the Democratic party is really complex because it can be traced all over the map to all camps.  This is partially due to the rise of the Evangelicals in the 90's which drove the "Yankee Republicans" straight into the Democratic Party.

But I certainly hope I would have eventually come around to Senator Clinton if the situation were reversed (but I'm not going to play the disingenuous "I know I would have..." card).  I hope the "Green Screen" McCain speech would have changed my mind on a pretty fundamental level .

The other question that needs to be asked (in a non-patronizing manner) is:  how much have past bad primary experiences made this the last straw.  I know in my case, in the reverse circumstance, it might have been the last straw because I was still upset about Kerry (who weirdly enough supported my candidate this time around).  The previous elections were really elections where I felt dialog was shut down much too early.

I think if we would all realize that there was some sort of negative component (though less pronounced in some than others) in everybody's vote and that the party hasn't always been the best in listening to grievances (this is one of the first elections where the tires on a candidate were actually kicked), eventually we would be able to forge some sort of unity, even if it's of the sort ("Gee, I hope you guys know what you are doing").  It is possible to vote Democratic and still have deep wounds. I voted for Kerry even though he was consistently LAST on my list of candidates.


Visiting the hopium dens proudly since 2007.
by AZphilosopher on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:30:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Open Letter to Senator Clinton: Please Help (2.00 / 1)

So, basically: nobody ever said he doesn't need you. You're merely offended that he's letting you make your own decision about the best course for America (McCain presidency or Obama presidency) instead of aggressively "wooing" you when you're still grieving.

Treating you like adults isn't a declaration he doesn't need you. It's merely the belief that you're still Democrats.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:36:07 AM EST

Re: An Open Letter to Senator Clinton: Please Help (2.00 / 1)

This was posted in the wrong place


by Aris Katsaris on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:36:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Grieving? What do you thnk I am ,12 yr old and my (2.00 / 1)

cat just died? How condescending! I've been disappointed enough time in my life by the democrats that I'm not surprised at the outcome. It was obvious that the party elite under Dean turned against her and went for boy wonder as soon as MoveOn threw their support behind him and the money started gushing in. After all, Dean recognized the power of that endorsement for what it was, being the beneficiary of their "largesse" in 2004! This is all about MONEY!!! and who can deliver the most of it!

Grieving, NO, furious, YES! That sham of a display on May 31st was the last straw and the end of my allegiance to the ironically named "democratic" party because that "show" had nothing to do with democracy!

You might not believe this, but I was not a supporter of Clinton at the very beginning - I started wavering towards her when Edwards, Obama and MSM started questionning the legitimacy of her NH win, because the exit polls didn't match the outcome with Kucinich asking and paying for a recount! That was low! I became firmly in her camp in SC after the discovery of the "playing the racism card against the Clintons" memo by an Obama SC campaign aide, whom he fired but the damage was done. Everyone knew how hard the Clintons worked all of their lives for civil rights and accusing them and distorting their words was behond reprehensible!

How can you say that Obama has the best course for America when his record proves the opposite? Voted for tort reform, voted for allowing credit card companies and banks to charge more than 30% in interest, you obviously love paying more for your student loans, voted for the repugnant energy bill giveaways and is now fighting against a commitment for healthcare for adults! I don't see much of a difference between McCain and him, except McCain voted against the energy bill and will give me $5,000 towards my $22,200 health insurance premiums. From observing Obama's continuing nuances for the exit of our troops from Iraq, I'm not holding my breath that he'll do anything more than McCain in the near future.

I saw on TV yesterday, now that he's the presumptive nominee, that he's against any kind of timetables to get our troops out of Iraq - so what's the difference between the two? no timetable = AIR = no commitment to take our troops out in a near future!

I come here out of nostalgia and also to take my mind of the nausea and pain caused by my last round of chemo.....

I was part of the Trudeaumania in Canada, while I was studying there, and fell hard for his mantra of fighting for the inspirational "just society". He ended up being the most divisive prime minister and responsible for the extremely close call of the separation of Quebec from Canada. This campaign feels a lot like his. It makes me sad, in a way, how all the past disappointments have made me jaded and that one day, you too will realize that politics/ians are dirty, the candidates never live up to expectations and worse the american people never win and end up worse for it. We are promised the sky, elections, after elections and just look where we are today!

Enjoy it while it lasts because there's no way he'll turn out the way you expect him to govern. You hear only what you want to hear but he's been very open about how he will govern by compromise with the republicans and the results will never be for the benefit of the average americans. He'll give in on social security as he's never shown in the past, that he's not firmly against any kind of privatization - Kos rebuked him on it and forced him to rethink that idea.

Politicians never deliver on their promises except maybe for the least of what was dangled, in other words, crumbs to appease the masses - it's all geared up for the benefit of corporate america and special interests.

What infuriates me, it's the party's new ideology that it's perfectly correct and acceptable to disenfranchise voters in order to grab power a la republican, in their own primaries. This is not the party that I loved and was proud to be a member of! I cannot by principle, owe allegiance to this new urban and suburban party which spurns white blue collar workers and hispanics and fosters blatant sexism! I could only pledge allegiance to my old inclusive party which unfortunately, no longer exists, thanks to Obama -it's yours now, but don't ask me to join in because it has become too repulsive to me!


by suzieg on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 08:07:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grieving? What do you thnk I am ,12 yr old and (none / 0)

"...to disenfranchise voters..."

I think disenfranchise is the wrong word to use here. Both states in question were forewarned that consequences would follow their actions if they chose to move their primaries forward. Despite this, they elected to buck the establishment. This leads me to conclude that the actions against them, to which everyone agreed at the time, were undertaken without malice as a punishment. I don't particularly care whose supporters voted for or against sanctions - the real point is that the party has complete control over its own process of selecting a nominee. If it didn't, chaos would probably ensue.

In retrospect, I'm glad they moved forward and were punished. In no other way could the utter stupidity of the nominating process be cast in such a glaring light. Maybe, just maybe, it can be fixed now. Everyone that is a member of the Democratic Party could benefit from that reform, especially if it allows the party to cater to states other than Iowa and New Hampshire.

Your comments, however, reflect more passion and anger at Obama and the democrats than any actual concern for the "disenfranchised voters" or why things worked out the way they did. My take is that you didn't care how broken the system was before it inconvenienced your candidate and instead of being interested in fixing it now you'd rather be angry and yell (type furiously) about it. That's fine. If you disown the democrats out of some sense of "disrespect" or supposed conduct on their part or the part of their nominee, that's your choice. Just remember, though, that you could stand up now and work with people in the party for real change that affects everyone. If ever there was a time when that was possible, it's now. Or you can be angry and vent. And do nothing. Like everything else, that choice is yours.

Good day.


by jandz on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 09:40:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No that is not true, and if you knew me personally (none / 0)

you would not come to that conclusion. The joke from all my friends, be democrats or republicans in Texas or elsewhere, has always been: "look up the word liberal, and you will see her face"! There was never a doubt about what my politics stood for. The party always came first, because I was a true believer in their credo: one man, one vote! It was a great argument to use against republicans, which is now lost!

Do you know how brave it was for me to argue with my rabid republican dentist that Obama was not a muslim while he's drilling my tooth without local anesthesia? snark. I'm very tired, I haven't slept deeply for weeks so I'm obviously not making my point accurately, but will give it a second try!

I admit, I don't care for either candidate + pitiful McCain, even though my heart does tug for him because I remember the day, when he came home from Viet Nam in 1973, and seeing him and the other POWs being paraded down Market Street to Union Square in San Francisco and a man next to me remarking out loud: "poor guys, today a parade, tomorrow they will all be forgotten!"  

My preference and I do mean "preference", if we are going to parse words today, for Clinton solidified as a result of the cruel racism attacks directed at them both. I hate hypocrisy and how could I not turn against Obama when he passes himself as someone who advocates for an age of new politics while using Lee Atwater's type of attacks?

I will concede to you that my preference for Clinton is purely selfish. I wanted some kind of relief from my $22,200 yearly health care premiums, which I can only get through my state high risk pool. Obama refuses to commit to health care for adults, which left me no choice. I lose it every time I hear him say that women should vote for him because he'll give us health care which is a bold face lie and accounts for my disdain towards him. His hypocrisy and mendacity are unpalpable! How can I ever trust him when he lies so easily?

My main grief is with the overt corruption of the party. It absolutely is! I would still be disgusted, frustrated, extremely disappointed and furious at that absurb spectacle, trying to pass as democracy, had Obama been in her position. How can anyone who witnessed 2000 and the overt disenfranchisement of voters and the silent acceptance from our party, after the verdict from the supreme court, in order to give the presidency to Bush, not react negatively to the party you've always loved, using the same tactics to give the nomination to the candidate who rakes in the most money? Everything always revolves around money, never about the purety of goodwill and we all know that money corrupts.

What is wrong with chaos? I think it would have been great if, as a result of it, Iowa had been dethroned along with their undemocratic caucuses. Because of them, we lost Dean in 2004 when that Quebec tape surfaced, in which he described Iowa caucuses as places where only the extremes of the parties come out and are not a good representation of the overall voting population.

I never understood why we gave preference to 2 states which, for the most part, always vote republican! Where does this entitlement come from?
Because of Iowa and the pandering to their good people, we are stuck with these obscene subsidies for Ethanol!

I've given up, after 40yrs, trying to reform the party from the inside out. Doesn't work, the only thing that might, is massive defection from the party or a loss in a democratic year. It would be worth it, if it meant reforming it for the better - I'm willing to take the chance! You obviously don't, so good luck, it's your party now that your candidate owns it! Hopefully, we'll meet one day on some blog where you can prove me wrong, I would truly relish that day, if I knew it was possible, unfortunately experience has taught me differntly!


by suzieg on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:23:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

can you handle the truth? (1.00 / 4)

How about ask Obama to undermine idiotic sites like daylikos.com ?
Obama NEVER attemted to undermine outrageous and scurrilous attacks from dkos-like websites.
Stop whining and get a life.

Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties
by engels on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 06:47:41 AM EST

Re: can you handle the truth? (1.00 / 4)

i meant: ask Obama to start with http://www.dailykos.com/ and the likes.
if he will do that than you can ask Hillary something similar
Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties
by engels on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 06:52:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

AMEN! (2.00 / 1)


by suzieg on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 08:12:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

At some point in the future Hillary needs to say.. (none / 0)

She needs to say, "If you are fighting to see that Barack Obama is not elected President, you are fighting against me. You are not doing this in my name and do not associate my name with your efforts. If you support the values associated with me and my campaign then you simply cannot vote for John McCain, and you can't sit out this election season. Everyone is free in this country to make their own choices about who to vote for, but if you are doing any of these things, you and I are on different sides."


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 09:22:49 AM EST


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